Bunky just gave Hardy the ammo that he needs...
The ClubHouse: Big Brother Archives: Bunky just gave Hardy the ammo that he needs...
| Fluffy | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:43 am 
I think Bunky could beat anybody that he goes up against, except maybe Monica. |
| Sanfranjoshfan | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:43 am
Carezee - I think Hardy's jaw dropping surprise was that he was going to walk and give the win to Krista. Instead, he turned on her.
His "surprise" is sonmething that is no longer in the works.
That's how I understood it.... |
| Wcv63 | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:50 am
Oops wrong thread
~Fingers in ears, hands covering eyes, running away~ |
| Fluffy | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:53 am
Hehehehehe |
| Babyruth | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:56 am
SFJF- that's how I understood it, too.
But, I guess the surprise turned out to be that he and Nicole became the new Chilltown! |
| Sanfranjoshfan | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:03 am
Dave...if it was down to Hardy and Bunky in the final two, then these ex-HGs would vote for Bunky to win:
Sheryl (said in a chat that she would even vote Will over Hardy to win)
Autumn
Shannon
Mike
Kent
Krista
Monica
Will
The only vote that Hardy would get would be Nicole's.
"From the experience of Survivor and Richard Hatch when it came to final voting the evictees had cooled down and voted on 'Who played the game best'. I think it will go the same way and I can't see Bunky getting any votes on this basis."
In the end, nobody wanted either Richard OR Kelly to win, but they HAD to choose one. Kelly may have lost because of a grudge held by Susan. It most certainly IS a jury of people who have a personal stake in the outcome....that stake is not monetary, it is a decision that is molded by the relationships that were made with the final two in the house.
If there was not an expectation of recriminations coming back to haunt them at the end, then the final jury wouldn't consist of everyone that kicked out of the game!
Remember, too, that out of the original 16 members of Survivor, there was only one real alliance....the one with Richard, Kelly, Susan, and Rudy. The rest of the players were too lame to realize that they needed to form alliances to win. It was Richard Hatch that set the alliance standard in America's reality tv shows. The alliances started in BB2 from the first day (they learned that was the key to success from Survivor), the feelings are stronger and because those alliances constantly shifted, more of the HG feel betrayed than anyone on Survivor.
JMO |
| Fluffy | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:08 am
Yeah, but if Nicole is not in the final two with Hardy, then that means that something may have went wrong with her and Hardy. Therefore, he probably wouldn't get her vote either. |
| Dave_Oz | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:33 am
Sanfran:
Okay, while I may question a couple of those votes and while I still believe that a cooling off period would have an effect on some decisions I concede that Bunky would probably win against Hardy.
Maybe  |
| Sanfranjoshfan | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:37 am
Dave - I think it's moot anyhow. On Thursday, as far as Bunky is concerned, you can stick a fork in him, he's done.
:-) |
| Franny | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:45 am
I'm not saying Bunky would win because he played the game better, but because he was so humane in playing it. If Hardy had not badmouthed his nominations, or served them up for public ridicule, they may have agreed that he played better, but he's not that smart. Richard had allies, but he never publicly made fun of or tried to humiliate anyone, he knew better. He talked stategy to his people and they agreed who would be the hardest to beat in the end, but they didn't fry them for dinner to win, and that is why he won the game, not because everyone loved him. |
| Sanfranjoshfan | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:51 am
Franny - That's right. The winner is going to be determined as much (if not more) by how much the jurors want a HG to LOSE as much as by how much they want a HG to WIN.
It's going to the high number of "anti-Hardy" votes rather than the "pro-Hardy" ones that would do him in....if he makes it to the final 2.
I'm still hoping (probably in vain) for some kind of upset in the final 4, final 3 scenarios that would turn the tide against Hardy and Nicole. |
| Tatyana | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:57 am
Also, the evictees from Survivor didn't get to see what was going on daily, they only got to hear the little bit at the tribal council. In BB2, all the evictees can watch the shows and the live feeds and read what's going on and I don't think Hardy is impressing any of them. So I think between hardy and bunky at the end, bunky would win. |
| Voyeur | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 12:12 pm
Well, the Survivor evictees got to talk to each other, although you'd have to take any axe grinding stuff with a grain of salt. |
| Dave_Oz | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 12:34 pm
Franny: <Bunky ... because he was so humane in it>
I think this perception is due to his never winning and his constant playing on the 'poor lil Bunky' theme. Notice however that in the last week he has been almost strutting around bragging about his victories (which served only to hasten his demise). Who knows how 'humane' he would have been if he had won an HOH or two earlier in the game.
As to Hardy and his attitude, I realise that he hasn't been 'clever' in his methods of dealing with nominations & evictions but I believe he has been honest with respect to himself in that he is a 'what you see is what you get' type of person. He psyches himself up before the comps and sure he 'demonizes' potential nominees as his way of handling the task.
I happen to believe that evictees will judge him more fairly than many here
Personally I'd like Will to win, simply because he is so TOTALLY undeserving of victory that he deserves it.
Mmm..time for bed I think..lol. (3:30 am here) |
| Gouraphik | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 03:26 pm
OK, here are the jury dynamics of Survivor 1, Survivor 2, and BB2 as I see it:
Survivor 1:
1) Participants were separated into two groups until the merger half-way through the game. Since all evictees before the merger never met the members of the other team (except during the challenges), they have less information about them. If members of the original opposing team happen to end up in the final 2, the early evictees will likely have less of a grudge. It's hard to feel animosity towards someone you've barely even seen, much less known.
2) Evictees were sequestered for the most part. While they did see all subsequent voting ceremonies, they weren't really privy to the actions of the remaining contestants. Aside from any info they gleaned from each other as evictees, they don't have much else other than what they were able to learn before they were booted.
3) The "alliance mentality" (aside from the original alliance) wasn't entrenched until the later stages of the game. This also reduces the grudge factor.
4) The game took place over a short period of time (40 days) and people were evicted approx. every 3 days.
Survivor 2 is similar, except:
1) The "alliance mentality" was a go from day 1, but again, since the opposing sides didn't know each other until the merger, any animosities would be muted. The "voting along party lines" nature of the votes didn't really change after the merger, either. Since the alliances never shifted for the most part, the grudges would be more partisan than personal.
2) While the participants could glean info from the outside world, and watch the broadcasted episodes, the fact that the live finale show was held months after the actual choosing of the final 2 is a big factor. It's very likely that any hostile feelings that lingered would have dimmed with the passage of such a long amount of time. Also, as far as we know, they had no access to any transcripts (or behind-the-scenes tapes) of all of their actions.
Too much analysis, I know. What I'm getting at is the nature of BB2 is too different to compare with the Survivor series when it comes down to the juries. The factors that allowed for an "objective" analysis of the "best game player" aren't present here. It's a whole new ballgame, and one in which I think the various wounds of the evictees won't have healed come voting time. The concepts of "objectivity", or even "neutrality", have never been overly present in BB2, and I doubt they'll be present at the finale. |
| Franny | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 06:22 pm
I wasn't talking about the crying (not that Hardy and Nicole have cried too), I was talking about being openly cruel and attempting to humiliate another person in front of everyone to justify your nomination of them. Hardy is the only HG who has done this.
Oh and by the way any of the HGS who have won challenges have had their bragging time, why not Bunky, it's not like he's had many chances to brag. How many times have we heard about Hardy's spectacular car race, or how many times Nicole could have won, but chose to throw it, I guess that's not bragging. If the worst thing Bunky has done is cry then he is one up on the rest of them. Yes he asked who he should vote for..and so did Nicole, and so did Will, and so did Hardy...But Bunky is the only one some of you think is weak for doing this. Let's be fair.
If Bunky were making snide remarks and trying to humiliate others he would be on my list of non-favorites also. These people are not in this game to make friends but they deserve my rath if they are rude and cruel while trying to win. Hardy is a poor sport and I for one find it distastful. |
| Highlander | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 07:18 pm
I am with you there Franny. |
| Rainbowz | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 08:09 pm
Another important aspect in the di9s-similarity between BB and Survivor is that the nominees/evicted HGs know exactly who put their head on the block, where Surv. simply had a secret vote, the outcasts couldn't pin it on any one particular person, but the BBHGs sure can point a finger at the HoH who hoofed them, and that's Hardy to the largest extent. He has no chance of winning; 2nd place is his destiny at best.
That's going to make a major difference in how the ex HGs vote when comes time to pick between Hardy and Nicole. Needless to say, Nicole will be disliked less than Hardy -she only hoofed Krista and pissed off Mon, which is why she will NOT turn on him, he's her best bet to win the half mil. She'd have much worse chances with anyone else there, even Will who's been Mr Charming for a few weeks now. He's not going to be a very good opponent anymore. |
| Snee | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 08:31 pm
add me to your list, franny! |
| Babyruth | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 08:33 pm
Yay, Franny! |
| Plato | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 08:44 pm
Is anyone listening to the conversation at the table that is going on right now (8/24 11:40PM EST)?
Will asked Bunky who he thought, out of all the hgs, who had gay experiences. Bunky told Hardy he thinks he's bi--80% hetrto 20% gay. And now Hardy is having a hissy fit.
I gotta give Bunky credit for taking the risk and giving his honest thoughts.
But if Hardy needed any more "amo" to justify in his own mind why Bunky should leave, he just got it. |
| Sanfranjoshfan | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 08:45 pm
ditto....what Franny said! |
| Peachie | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 08:45 pm
Sitting here listening to it plato. LOL they are hillarious. Bunky is digging his grave, however this is what Will wants and Hardy had pretty much made up his mind. |
| Highlander | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 08:48 pm
Well let Bunky go out the way he wants. If he can needle Hardy a little bit why not. Bunky isnt stupid, he knows he is out. Bunky, you are coloring your hair, plucking your eyebrows, LOL.
You guys fill some gay stereotypes and I dont. Now hardy asking for cigarettes, Bunky said no, you nominated me. Go BUNKY |
| Duchess | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 09:16 pm
LOL It was funny. Bunky pretty much smoked the two hetero's in this debate. I think Will was enjoying it because it made Hardy angry. Hardy, as usual doesn't have any sense of humor. |
| Voyeur | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 09:18 pm
Gouraphik, there are some errors in your analysis. In Survivor only the final 7 voted out were on the jury. This was post merger and the first person voted out after the merger (Gretchen) does not make the jury. So the jury members had at least 6 days of living with the people from the other tribe.
It was the same with Survivor 2. And the votes there were cast at the last tribal council in Australia and then sealed and taken to the US for the last show. The jury didn't vote in LA, but in Australia.
God, Will scores again. There is no downside to him asking that question, and he could have gotten just what he wanted, which was Bunky calling Hardy gay. He's caught on to the fact that Bunky is refusing to schmooze, so expect to see him goad Bunky into making more statements that irritate Hardy. |
| Tisha90029 | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 09:20 pm
I hope this hasnt been posted already--please forgive me if it has. I can't be the only person who thinks that Bunky is not toast right now: Nicole does not want him out nor does Monica. If Nicole decides to draw her line in the sand and assert her independence, this may be the right moment. she has nothing to lose...even if Hardy gets HoH again, chances are that Nicole would not get nominated because Hardy will think he still needs to get out either Monica or BUnky.....if any of the others win HoH, Nicole is home free (it may appear) because even if she gets nominated, the rest can unanamously vote out Hardy.
OK. Those are my silly thoughts. Thanks for your time. |
| Misslibra | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 09:20 pm
Plato, I was listening to that conversation and could not stop laughing! LOL Hardy wanted to know and Bunky told him the truth. Now watch him B*tch about it to Nicole later. And speaking of Nicole from the expression on her face while this conversation was happening,she also wanted to laugh, and she hurried up and went outside where Monica was. That is a very good example of Will stirring the pot! LOL |
| Misslibra | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 09:25 pm
Tisha, Bunky is definately toast, and Will is making darn sure he's toasted very well. And there is nothing wrong with that. Will is playing the game, and if the other HG's were silly enough to leave him in the house they get what they deserve... all except Monica because she knows Will is a sneaky little devil.  |
| Duchess | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 09:26 pm
I agree Voyeur, Will is a subtle and effective manipulator. Last night, he failed to get Bunky to react to their Kent bashing but Will is definitely working this nomination round in his favor. |
| Tisha90029 | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 09:30 pm
Thanks MsLibra...I refused to pay for the feeds so I feel more out of the loop than I should. LFP are the closest I get this year, unfortunately. I really think it might be a smart strategy for Nicole, though...I frankly think Will is more enjoyable on TV than Bunky, but I hate to think of Bunky behaving nicely to these people for so long--only to get stabbed in the back |
| Gouraphik | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 09:59 pm
<Gouraphik slaps himself in the head with a 2' x 4'>
Voyeur...you're right, you're right. I forgot that the pre-merger guys in Survivor don't get to vote. So scratch that part of my analysis. Oh well...and I worked so hard on that part, too!
In other news...I'm glad Bunky's giving Hardy a piece of his mind, even though he may be digging his own grave. Vive le revolucion, Bunky! |
| Highlander | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:03 pm
Will wasnt too subtle tonight. Monica knew exactly where he was going when he asked Bunky who he thought had a gay experience in the house. Monica said No, you did not say that. I fell over. They all knew it was leading up to Hardy. Nicole was hiding her smile. Bunky went through all the people and then finished with Hardy. It was a killer. I am glad that Bunky has decided what the heck, he is going to nail him. My favorite was when he said he didnt get Hardy being engaged for six years and breaking it off. |
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