Can you tell? they are just starting to turn on BUNKY.
The ClubHouse: Big Brother Archives: Can you tell? they are just starting to turn on BUNKY.
| Realfan | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:19 am 
<<Just a thought -- as Cfan pointed out, the HG's always demonize the one they are about to vote out. Isn't that what most of us do when ending any relationship, whether it's a friendship or a romantic one? I think we tend to ignore those things we loved about that person, and focus almost entirely on the things we don't like. It makes it easier to split, because then we don't have to feel the pain of the loss as much.
In this case, I think it would be even more tempting to focus on the negative, since the HG's have some guilt about the whole nom/voting process -- so they rationalize their behavior by convincing themselves that the one being voted out deserved to be ousted. It keeps them from having to be self-observant, and admit to their own culpability. >>
This is EXACTLY right, Karuuna, which is why I keep cutting ALL the HGs a break in this regard. This game is brutal on all of them, because of its design. I believe the Survivor people did the very same thing, but they only showed a tiny fraction of it on the show (before Amber got the boot, Tina said she "hadn't shown her anything" that made Tina believe she deserved to be there. Before Roger got the boot, he was deemed "well off. Before Keith got the boot, Colby was getting irritated at EVERYTHING Keith did. As a Keith fan, it really made me mad!)
Anyway, they're human. I refuse to demonize the HGs for what I consider a very typical psychological reaction. |
| Dave_Oz | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:20 am
Highlander: <Of all the HGs I think Monica is the only one who can walk out of there with her head held high>
I really don't understand this thing about anyone going out with their 'head held high'. Sounds like a Kentism to me, and he really had nothing to blow his own trumpet about from what I can recall - he lied and deceived as much as anyone.
Monica has never been in a power position so there is no way of judging how she would have handled it. However she has been in a 'lack of power' position and was embarrassingly totally off her face about it !
For anyone to see Moanin' Monya as someone to be admired convinces me that I'm reading the wrong set of life feed postings  |
| Babyruth | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:31 am
Franny, you keep voicing my opinions better than I could. Is there some sort of BB cam in my head that you're watching? LOL |
| Jstar | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:43 am
Did anyone hear or see Will's tirade of Kent last night? He was doing it while poor Bunky  was there.
He basically called Kent - America's Biggest Hypocrite. (as oppose to America's Biggest Hero). He was explaining to Bunky that how Kent lies and was hypocrite.
I was starting to like Will up to that point.
Now the only person I can root for is Monica! (after bunky is gone )
Go Monica! |
| Highlander | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:46 am
I think that Will was just baiting Bunky with one more thing by going after Kent. I have to say though I agreed with him. |
| Fluffy | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:48 am
Yeah. Kent messed himself up by running to different people and trying to set up "alliances." He also hurt himself by attacking Krista the way that he did because she never joined TOP. As it turned out, TOP fell apart. That's what he get for trusting people. |
| Realfan | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:54 am
<<I really don't understand this thing about anyone going out with their 'head held high'. Sounds like a Kentism to me, and he really had nothing to blow his own trumpet about from what I can recall - he lied and deceived as much as anyone.
Monica has never been in a power position so there is no way of judging how she would have handled it. However she has been in a 'lack of power' position and was embarrassingly totally off her face about it !
For anyone to see Moanin' Monya as someone to be admired convinces me that I'm reading the wrong set of life feed postings >>
I hear you, Dave. This is a GAME, not a feel-good fest. I think, considering the rules, they've all been pretty well behaved in the last week or so, and nice to each other. But that wasn't going to last, of course. As soon as HOH was named, they went back to fight mode.
As for Monica "deserving" to win--I don't see it. She has done NOTHING to deserve anything in terms of game playing, as far as I'm concerned.
And Kent was certainly no better. He made himself very hard to live with, he lied, he backstabbed, he badmouthed, and bottom line--he didn't play as well as the others! |
| Highlander | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:59 am
If Monica makes it to the final three then she has to be given credit for good game playing because it is all about who gets there in the end. You may not agree with how she played the game just as I may not agree with how Hardy or Nicole played the game. If Monica is down to the final two with Hardy or Nicole then she was just as good a game player as they were. If I was an evicted house guest I would look at the two nominees and ask myself whose method of game playing did I like best. I would go with Monica since she didnt do it by backstabbing or lying. |
| Voyeur | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:15 am
I don't think Will is going after Bunky out of any mean spirited motives. He simply realized that he was the target this week and had to do *something* to make someone else the target. Given the personalities of the people with the power this week, this is basically the only way he is able to do that. He had to make Hardy like him and dislike someone else. He went on a major "entertain Hardy" project, and then set Bunky up to fill the vacuum when Hardy started having second thoughts about evicting someone he liked so much. Hardy and Nicole don't realize they're being played by Will like a violin. He *is* the puppetmaster. Were I in the game, I would only hope I could pull off a move half as good. |
| Bijoux | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:18 am
<In this case, I think it would be even more tempting to focus on the negative, since the HG's have some guilt about the whole nom/voting process -- so they rationalize their behavior by convincing themselves that the one being voted out deserved to be ousted.>
I agree with Karuuna on this. I also think that right from the start personal feelings were incorporated into the nomination process to legitimize choices. Remember Mike trying to set up getting Nicole out because "no one liked her and Sherrie was so well liked?" i.e. Let's vote out the ones we don't like. Krista then nommed Autumn because she didn't like her and wanted her out. Each houseguest who has been HOH since has followed suit. I think that is part of the reason why people who are nominated get so upset. The group is narrowing down to people that are at least getting along superficially, with some friendships that may last post-bb, and its getting more difficult to pick. If you have three people you are close to, one has to go and I imagine that it would be very hard to do that completely impersonally.
We're hearing Hardy and Nicole more on who to vote out and why because they are the one's who have been HOH the last three time. The few times the others have discussed who they would vote out if they won HOH, personal reasons have been included. I think that it would be easier to vote strategically rather than on personal feelings (ala Richard in Survivor and Eddie during his last weeks in the house) but I think that personal feelings are a more natural criteria for people to gravitate to since we pick people to include in our lives based on personal feelings we have toward them. |
| Sunny | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:24 am
Kent was one of the biggest hypocrites so who cares if Will was saying it. Bunky will see when he watches tapes of the show. So whoever thinks Kent is just wonderful I will barf right now. He shouldn't have thrown stones. What he should have done was look in the mirror. |
| Fluffy | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:25 am
Voyeur is right. Will is the puppetmaster, but only at Nicole's expense. She is stupid to keep him in the house. He's playing off dumb so that they will think he is the weakest link and keep him in the house. Obviously, Nicole isn't that smart. But the reason I think that she may want Bunky to go first is that he is not hiding the fact that he is a threat. Hardy isn't smart enough to see that Will is a threat too. Gotta love Will.
He's playing off dumb, but I think he will really try to win HoH next time. He has to, or its him or Monica. |
| Realfan | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:43 am
<< I think that is part of the reason why people who are nominated get so upset. The group is narrowing down to people that are at least getting along superficially, with some friendships that may last post-bb, and its getting more difficult to pick.>>
And the people nominated react under this assumption, too. They freak out thinking they're less "popular" or "liked," regardless of the reason given by the HOH. (Mike, Kent, Shannon, Krista especially!) Since they keep taking it personally, is it any wonder the HOHs try to justify it for personal reasons? |
| Terry | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:51 am
Some people can find a rationalization for any premise. C'mon hardy fanatics come up with a better line than that!!! |
| Karuuna | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:53 am
Bijoux and Realfan, I agree! And that's all I have to say! Except, thanks for sharing your thoughts.  |
| Dave_Oz | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:54 am
Real Fan: You must be reading the same set as of LFPs as me
Highlander: Monica, like Bunky, has just played the "I'm no threat, don't get rid of me" game. Bunky has been silly enough to add irritation to his strategy so will go sooner rather than later. When it comes to final judging I really believe that the others would overcome their petty hates at being kicked out and acknowledge the best game player. And that ain't Monya (or Bunky). |
| Highlander | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:57 am
Dave as the old adage goes, it isnt whether you win or lose its how you played the game. If Monica ends up in the final two, I would vote for the way she got there rather than how Hardy or Nicole got there. |
| Voyeur | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 12:03 pm
Actually, I don't think Nicole is making half as big a mistake as Hardy is. Nicole can't win against anybody in the house, and the only person Hardy can win against is Nicole. If Will gets the last HoH and only Hardy and Nicole are left, Will is going to take Nicole with him into the finals. It will be his revenge against Hardy (locking up Shannon's vote for sure), and he will be able to say that he was being true to his alliance with Nicole (and Hardy will very likely believe that Nicole really did betray him, he might vote against her and for Will).
If Nicole gets HoH next week, she will nom Monica and Will/Bunky, and she will convince Hardy to vote out Monica. She won't want to take Monica to the final three because she knows Monica would take Hardy with her to the final two.
If Monica gets HoH next week, she will nom Nicole for sure, and Hardy if Bunky is still in. If Will is still in, I'm not sure, she's still on the whole "why is he still here" thing. But Nicole knows the remaining voters would vote to evict Hardy and keep her.
If Will gets HoH next week, he will leave Nicole as the sole voter. At first I was thinking that he did not want this HoH, but now I'm thinking it might be best. He knows Nicole will vote out Monica, and Monica is Will's target as well (she would not take him to the finals).
If Bunky gets HoH next week, he will also not nom Nicole.
So Nicole is set up quite well, the most dangerous scenario for her is if Monica makes the final 3 and wins HoH, everybody else would choose her to take to the final 2. Her only problem is that she cannot win. Whether Will or Bunky goes is really irrelevant to her situation. Nicole has done well with only one problem, she fixated on getting to the final two and hasn't thought about the end game except to give tearful goodbyes to those she just stabbed in the back, and it ain't enough. |
| Bijoux | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 12:06 pm
I'll also add something that George (of all people!) said when asked about why some of his nominations seemed petty. (pp) When you're with a group of people that you like it's hard to make a decision about who to nominate. Nothing big stands out. All you're left with are the small incidents.
I think we've basically reached this point in the game. |
| Beocca1 | Friday, August 24, 2001 - 12:09 pm
If bunky is feeling picked onnow, he brought it on himself, by pansing up to these guys in the first place as in" oh tell me how to vote i'll do what ever you want" and all the crybaby bawling, he has left hiself open for disrespect,When you let people know you are weak they will treat you like a weakling,all that crying was fake,his stratigy backfired! He knew it was coming and all that nastyness doesnt make him look any tougher just bitchy, its to late .if you let your self get pushed around your gonna get pushed around, it is to late to change two late to say " now stop it i'm really a tough guy"! |
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